[Editor’s note: This interview contains spoilers of Our Flag Means Death’s season-two finale.]
Our Flag Means Death’s season-two finale has it all. There’s a declaration of true love between our favorite criminals, Stede Bonnet (Rhys Darby) and Ed, a.k.a. Blackbeard (Taika Waititi). There’s also a heartbreaking death (RIP, Con O’Neill’s Izzy Hands), a pirate wedding that ends with the words “You are now officially mateys,” and some big-time fight scenes. “Mermen” packs a tight punch in only 30 minutes. The episode is both thrilling and satisfying, so even if Max makes the grave mistake of not renewing the series, fans will feel closure in a way that they didn’t with season one’s sendoff. And Our Flag Means Death creator David Jenkins already has some fun ideas brewing for a third season (and beyond!). The A.V. Club spoke to Jenkins about his plans to evolve Ed and Stede’s relationship, potential spin-offs, and how everyone on the show is handling its passionate fanbase.
The A.V. Club: First of all, how dare you kill Izzy Hands? Was that always the plan when you mapped out season two?
David Jenkins: [Laughs] Yes. I felt that Izzy had reached a point where he broke through a lot of his major patterns. It was fun to give him a season where he got to do everything and where Con O’Neill got to do everything. Well, I won’t say everything, because Con can do light years beyond what I think he can do, and I do think he can do anything. We wanted to show the depth of that character. Izzy is one of my favorites. He’s like middle management who is in a sort of love triangle [in season one]. He got his wish at the end of the first season by breaking up his boss and his boss’ lover. He got punished as a result, and he had to come out on the other side, which felt like a good journey.
AVC: Despite everything that happens in season two, including Izzy’s death, the finale ends on a happy note with Ed and Stede living together. Why was it important for you to show that?
DJ: Season one ends on such a tough note for them. As you said, after what they’ve been through, they should get a moment of happiness. I won’t say however fleeting. They are going to have challenges ahead. They’re both not the most mature yet. I think that’s the fun of it, to leave them in a place where it’s a good kind of stasis. They’ve sent the kids off in the car, so to speak, and now they’re going to have to really grow if they’re going to start an inn. It won’t be easy, but I like that they’re going to try.
AVC: “Mermen” has all the elements necessary for a season finale. Did you partly add all that as a way to provide closure in case this is the end for OFMD?
JD: What’s important to understand is that you never even know if you’re going to get a second season. Maybe if you get picked up for two right away, and even then, but especially right now, who knows? I think with season one’s end, it was a gamble to leave it the way it was. Everybody stomached through it. Now if it turned out they didn’t want us to make more, I just didn’t want to have another story where the same-sex love story ends in tragedy, unrequited love, or if one or both of them are being punished.
AVC: I actually love that about Our Flag Means Death. It reminds me of Schitt’s Creek in a way because the love story just exists and is perfect; there’s no questioning it as right or wrong.
JD: That’s such a nice compliment because I also think Schitt’s Creek does that really well.
AVC: You’ve previously said you want Our Flag to have only three seasons. Is that still true or do you feel like the show has scope to continue beyond that?
JD: I feel like Stede and Blackbeard’s story is a three-season story, but the world of the show could go beyond that. It’s a really rich world with so many stories to tell and really good performers to tell it. I do want to see how Ed and Stede become a mature couple in the next season. They’re a couple who is like in their late twenties right now as opposed to being teens at the end of season one.
AVC: So if OFMD continues in some other form, are there characters you’d like to focus more on or other historical references you’d like to include?
JD: Yeah, a lot, because it’s such a rich ensemble. How do you not want to see more of Joel Fry, Samson Kayo, Ewen Bremner, Nathan Foad, or Vico Ortiz? Any one of them could carry their own show. It’s fun to think about that and the storylines we can do with them, mixing and matching all our characters. Vico is incredible, for example, and I especially love watching them in an action sequence. This is a weird comparison, but there’s a Harrison Ford and Sigourney Weaver vibe they put out. I’m such a fan of what they do.
AVC: You also really like parallels and coming full circle as a storyteller.
JD: Yeah, I do. I knew I wanted to start season two in the Republic of Pirates and end by coming back there. Stede goes on an amazing journey between the episodes. He’s thrown out of there initially, but then he comes back as a hero. I like the symmetry of that. And then the Republic of Pirates gets destroyed; it dies. It’s not just Izzy; it’s the place too. It was important to have a home, this stronghold for everyone, be destroyed. But the characters are not crushed. They’re going to try to move on.
AVC: One of season two’s new characters is Zheng Yi Sao, played by Ruibo Qian, who quickly becomes an integral part of the crew. What was the casting process like for her?
JD: Ruibo is an amazing find. One of our incredible casting directors, Cindy Tolan, she had Ruibo in mind immediately for that part by the time it got to her. And we had looked and looked before talking to Cindy. Ruibo has her own fascinating story because apparently, she had a couple of strong premonitions that she’s going to play Zheng Yi Sao. She had a modern take on the part without it being strained. She’s incredible. She’s a trained theater actor with a lot of chops. She has to go toe-to-toe with Taika and Rhys. She did it with such grace.
AVC: Season two takes Blackbeard on an interesting turn of denouncing being a pirate. But in the finale, it’s almost like he’s reborn as one, especially with that gorgeous shot of him coming out of the water. What was the thought process behind this arc?
JD: Thank you. Blackbeard is a guy in recovery when he comes back to the ship when he’s wearing the jumpsuit. He’s trying to hang on and find some kind of footing. Who is he if he’s not a pirate? Meanwhile, Stede is on his way up and wants to experience the rockstar life of a pirate, while Ed as Blackbeard is over it. It was an interesting tension of, which one gives up their dream? A lot of times in relationships questions can come up, like who is going to give up on their dream to take care of the kids? Obviously, no one wants to, but someone ends up giving up more than they want to at some point. What’s wonderful about a mature romance, and what I’d want to see more of in season three, is Ed and Stede making these tough decisions.
AVC: Stede and Ed’s relationship has led to a passionate, vocal fandom, which you didn’t have as you were writing season one. While working on season two, how did you avoid doing fan service and focus on meaningful storytelling?
JD: I never anticipated the strong reaction to season one. It’s incredible it happened. Everybody is buoyed by it in the cast, crew, and the writers’ room. To be perceived on that level with such enthusiasm makes us want to make more of it. A lot of the things the fans love are not different from things the writers love. We are fans of the show. We’re writing fanfic, but it’s called fic when we write it. The big thing for us is to make sure we’re writing beats for the characters that feel true and have moments where all of us go, “Ooooh, we have to do this.” If the beats stay true, it won’t feel like we’re simply pandering.
AVC: How do you break down those beats for Ed and Stede’s relationship as they go from wanting to take it slow to sleeping with each other this season? And where do they go next?
JD: It’s challenging with them because most rom-coms end with couples getting together. They don’t then stay with them and say, “We’re together now, but it’s turbulent; how is that going to work out?” We thought, “Okay, let’s look at our relationships in the room. What have we encountered? Who’s been dumped? Who has had to forgive somebody?” These questions were fun for the second season. I think for the third, it would [be], “Okay, who’s had a relationship for over 10 years? What things do you have to work on?” It’s fun to watch two people like Ed and Stede go through this experience.